Sunday, November 7, 2010
Week 10: Art School
Week 9 - Art School:
1. Ten Tips For Those Considering Grad School, Ilana Stanger, TheArtBiz.com
2. Art Schools: A Group Critique, Raphael Rubenstein, Art In America, 2007.
3. Tales From the Crit: For Art Students, May Is the Cruelest Month, Jori Finkel, The New York Times, 2006.
4. Warhols of Tomorrow Are Dealers’Quarry Today, Carol Vogel, The New York Times, 2006.
5. What Should Colleges Teach, Stanley Fish, The New York Times, 2009.
Optional additional readings on the topic:
1. On The Uses of a Liberal Education, Edmundson, Harper’s Magazine, 1997
2. Miami Art Machine, New York magazine, 2008
3. Value of College Tuition is Called Into Question, USAToday, 2008
4. For and expanded version of Stanley Fish's What should Colleges Teach go here.
there are links below for parts 2-3, comments and more.
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This was one of my favorite weeks of readings. I found all the articles extremely informative and useful, especially “Ten Tips For Those Considering Grad School.” I also thought that the videos were hilarious.
ReplyDelete“Art Schools: A Group Critique” was a really great article. I had never really thought about the academic institution of critiques before and how they vary wherever you go.
Lisa Yusksavage’s description on final critiques was one that I could really relate to: “Think about the general nightmare of standing nude in public, but add something else you fear, like standing nude on a scale." It is incredibly nerve racking to stand up in front of your work in a room filled with all of your peers and all of your professors and hear everyone’s opinions about it.
I like the comparison between the East coast and West coast; I never knew that there was anything other than a critique experience described by Yuskasavage. Only going to school on the east, I’ve never been in artistic academic setting, which was more relaxed, where the final critiques weren’t terrifying. I really liked the critique mode described at CalArts: "Generally the faculty will quietly, or subtly, direct the conversation to make sure we cover certain topics, but there seems to be a respect for the M.F.A. students to drive the discussion." This really makes me wish that the grad students at Moore were more involved, or present. It would be nice to here the perspective of a more experienced, mature student.
I feel like our critiques are just 3-4 of the faculty voicing their opinions, when there are at least 30 people in the room. It is an incredibly awkward situation. It felt to me, (at my last crit anyways) that the critique was just an opportunity for some the faculty to talk about whatever they wanted, whether it related to my work or not. I really like the advice that Gregory Crewdson gave, “I always tell my students to forget 99 percent of what they hear. Find that 1 percent that really helps you."
I am excited to see what final critiques will be like this year, with so many new fine arts faculty. I think it might be refreshing with so many new, young and enthusiastic professors.
Brit Brennan
ReplyDeleteOn the topic of “deskilling” – I was talking to a friend of mine from Tyler the other day and he was telling me that the 3D classes there are set up into 3 parts; ceramics, something else, and then just sculpture. He said sculpture is almost entirely conceptual, and that craft is severely lacking in most student’s work. I’m really glad this isn’t the case with Moore, I feel like we are taught excellent craft, and I think it’s important to get called out on it when it’s bad.
I often find the crits at Moore baby students too much – they are too flattering and decorative. I don’t know if people are afraid of being honest or just chose only to offer positive criticism, but I know that to grow you need opposing points of view. I have found my harshest crits to be the best because it helps me gain some perspective.
I don’t know how I feel about collectors buying student’s work. I guess I don’t really care, and I don’t think any would buy mine, but that doesn’t bother me. Maybe someone buying your work now and encouraging you so much would make you feel pressured to keep doing what you’re doing – but we are always growing and changing our minds.
Brianna Barton
ReplyDeleteCritical Discourse
This week’s readings were both inspiring and discouraging—which, in regards to this class, has been a common trend for me this semester. The first article on choosing an MFA was certainly helpful. On one hand, I don’t know if I really want to teach after grad school, but this article suggests that that is really only the real reason to get an MFA. On the other hand, I have heard collectors say that they “won’t even look at an artist if they don’t have an MFA.” I have decided that if I do go to grad school, I won’t be for at least two years.
So say that I realize in this society I can’t live off of my work—which is indeed my intention—and I go to grad school. Wonderful. I’ll find a school with a hard working, dedicated community. I’ll have more loans. Oh well. But a PhD? Seriously? Sounds like a way to get even more money from a bunch of people who are already going to be poor. Art historian? Sure. Artists? No.
Jori Finkel’s New York Times article discussed a part of grad school that I find to be extremely beneficial: the crit. Personally, I think the crits here are too soft, to formal. There is little or no intellectual probing, and much of that has to do with the work that comes out of our school—it is mostly revolving around the formal ideas of painting or sculpture. I think there is a level of challenge sorely missing from this school’s curriculum, where conceptual ideas are barely discussed until senior year. I think as artists we could all be working harder, but we aren’t, because we know that somehow we can get away with it.
The article by Carol Vogel was more infuriating than informative. Mostly I hate remembering that the art world has become a market, art boiled down to commodities. Such gluttonous collectors and dealers turn the creative practice into a cash sport, and artists into race horses, who will either make their owner a world of money, or will be abandoned.
I found this weeks readings very informative and useful for the topic I am currently struggling with-choosing whether to aim for a residency or grad school after I graduate.
ReplyDeleteI found the "ten tips" article helpful and it brought up some very good points. It helped to solidify my plan to take some time off before going to grad school. I think that if I take a year or so off and work I really will be more mature and prepared to appreciate a grad school work schedule. I will have more life experience to bring to the table and learn from. I was already aware of most of the points but a few I hadn't thought of such as looking at the faculty's work.
I also found the article "art schools: a group critique" very interesting because it covered so many important topics. I constantly wonder what I should be learning in my undergrad program because technology and processes as well as the value of art are constantly changing the art world. As for "de-skilling", I think that at Moore you get what you put in. If you come in full-force determined to learn craft and as many processes as possible you will. You can go out of your way to build relationships with your professors, you can stay late to see a demonstration, you can study stacks of books from the library, and you can build contacts and learn from your peers. You can also go through Moore and earn a degree only learning 10% of what was available to you and sliding by on as little work as possible. I think that most art schools are probably similar. Its the kind of structure where you get out what you put in.
Relating another topic to my personal Moore experience, I have mixed feelings about crits. The experience really depends on the people involved. Some crits I have experienced have been extremely successful and I have learned a lot, while others seemed like a pat on the back and a waste of time. Depending on the professors or peers involved, it can sometimes turn in to an ego war about who knows more. The most successful experiences were crits where all of the students were present and involved in the crit and on the same level as any professor in the room. I prefer to be critiqued harshly because that is when I learn the most.
As a student who was offered exclusive representation in a gallery over the summer, I was very interested in the topic of whether it is too soon if you haven't graduated yet. I am currently struggling with allowing my work to progress and then dealing with the man who represents me expecting a constant flow of a particular type of work that will sell. I did anticipate this happening and did warn him that my work would change. I think it is a good experience and is teaching me a lot so I do not regret accepting it, but it is a constant battle.
I thought that the article, “Ten Tips For Those Considering Grad School,” was helpful and a bit intimidating. I personally don’t think it’s a good idea to go right into grad school when you graduate with a BFA. But that’s just my opinion; I think that working in an art related field would be more useful than jumping into studio work right away. (That issue is spoken about on number 9, “Take some time off.”) I’m not saying I wouldn’t consider going for my masters however, I feel as if I need more hands-on training before I become a completely independent artist. Furthermore, I find it completely unfathomable to enter grad school while being in such an enormous amount of debt from student loans.
ReplyDelete-And on a lighter note I absolutely loved the Simpsons clip. My sister went to school with the creator of the Simpsons, Matt Groening’s son, and his name was Homer. She said he was a stuck up asshole who hired a maid while he was living in the dorms to do his laundry.
Laurel Patterson
ReplyDeleteReading Response
I want to start out by saying thank god for those videos…they were hilarious.
This week’s readings were the best yet, they were super informative and actually touched on subjects that I am dealing with right now, not in the possible future, but right now.
The “10 Tips for Considering MFA Programs” was very thorough but it reminded me of the steps I previously went through when choosing a school for my BFA. Informative but not enlightening. The one thing that was effective to me was the encouragement to take time off between the BFA and MFA. Taking time off has never seemed like a positive option before and it was very reassuring to hear that this is encouraged to those right out of undergrad.
Although I knew we at Moore were not the only ones in the world faced with the dreaded criiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiits (in a creepy voice). “Tales From the Crit” assured me that we are not alone in this process. I tend to get so self involved during the month of May and it is nice to remember that I am not the only one going through this torment, and that it is quite similar all over the country. The thing that was really interesting was the description of the difference of crits between schools on the east and west coast. The east coast is lead by professors (which yes, I can see that) and the west coast is supposedly more laid back. If this is true, I would love to have my work critted on the west coast to see the difference first hand.
The intro into “What Should Colleges Teach” was very ironic for me. It was just a few days ago that I was talking to a friend about his new teaching job at an inner-city high school. He was telling me about how horrified he was when he showed up to his first session and not a single person could spell the word “design”; this was an Intro to Design course for 9th grade students! What has really happened to this new generation?
I liked these readings. After reading "What Should Colleges Teach" and "Tales from the Crit" especially, I have been thinking much more critically about the choices I've made (consciously or apathetically) that have influenced my education. For the most part, I am of the belief that what we put in at a school corresponds to what we leech from it, no matter the (awful) administrative decisions made during our time here, the program of study, or nature of the average final critique. From my time at Moore, I have learned that so long as I am asking the right questions, seeking relevant information, and working on projects I care about, I am learning and using the system to my advantage. Ultimately, I see the university as a portal through which I may access people, sources, and inspiration that can teach me what I need to know. The degree to which I have to work around rules, technicalities, inhibitors, perameters or cross lines to make the most of all these learning tools depends upon the school, I think.
ReplyDeleteOne thing these articles caused me to consider is that there are some factors that can make or break a school which are out of my control or beyond my influence. I think these are: the willingness of professors to really attempt to understand my work and my goals--their enthusiasm as my mentors (I have been very fortunate in this area and haven't had difficulty finding mentors at Moore) and the willingness of peers to engage with me in discourse about our work, in critiques, etc. This second facet of my education is incredibly beneficial when it's good, when my peers are turned on, and when it is bad (when my peers are apathetic) it can be incredibly detrimental. (This is how I understood the statement of one testimonial talking about her graduate school experience.) A negative crit can be very disheartening, but is far better and far more motivating than a silent one. People need people, I think.
Moore taught me to be resourceful, especially when it did NOT hand me everything I needed when I needed it on a silver platter. It has been good practice for real life, so I suppose that is the silver lining to our very imperfect higher education program here in the United States. For the record, I know elsewhere in the world education has its share of problems, but when I was in Prague last summer those interdisciplinary project/research art programs were PRETTY tempting.
I personally haven't put much thought into grad school.. not that i would never attend but I just don't see myself going through another year in school right after being in school for about 7 yrs now.. The degree I earn @ Moore in May will be my second college degree.. so you can imagine the kind of life I lived.. plus the debt I have acquired.. I am not that anxious to attend another year in school just to be put through more yrs of stress just to fig out what I want to accomplish. I do think that Grad school is a wonderful place for those who need it. I haven't figured out if I will attend in the future or not.. but these articles def have given me more insight on what I need to know!
ReplyDeleteThe article "Tales of the crit.." I must say that in my opinion, the crits here @ Moore are usually pretty dry and I never really get much feedback to improve my work or just understand what the professor is saying.. sometimes I feel some of the professors here gives crits in a way that they would be impressing someone.. throwing around their $50 words that no one else knows what the hell they mean.. Seriously, I have one professor in particular that I could go on with life never having to hear that person talk again! They never give feedback that is useful and is only impressed by a selected few, so that professor gives good crits to their favorites and discourages the ones who are not so much his favorite.. Crits to me are so/so.. I can use the feedback but only if it's constructive: if something is wrong with the work, give suggestions on how to fix it but telling a student that their work is ugly is NOT crit!!
I feel that I usually have good feedback on my work and alot of times it helps me to elaborate on a piece more and think of other solutions and such but for the other times, I would rather walk on hot coals than to hear a professor talk just to hear himself or herself talk to impress their co-workers... Just my opinion...
I do not plan on going to grad school. Ive been in college for almost 6 years and struggled along the way. College in itself was never really for me because ive always struggled due to my learning disability but I did it for two reasons to please my parents and to do it for myself. So as of now I would say no to grad school but you never know what the future will hold. I could easily change my mind later on.
ReplyDeleteReading the article on"the tales on crit" made me think about the crits we have here at school. Sometimes i get good feedback and others i feel like im getting more criticized about something i did then actually getting feedback that would help improve my work. I remember sphomore crits, and i had one professor come up to me and say i am not a painter... i was so mad because it was my first year of painting EVER and i worked really hard on it and to have someone say that hurt. its like keep your opinions to yourself it doesn't matter whether you like my work or not tell me what i can do to improve!!!
all in all i think if professors or whoever wants to crit someones artwork... they should think about what they say and make sure that they back it up with constructive feedback cause otherwise they shouldn't say nothing at all no one really cares if you like what we are doing all we want to know is what can we do to improve thats why we are in school ... TO LEARN!!
I think that going to graduate school right after college could be detrimental or beneficial. Of course there are pros and cons involved in this decision.
ReplyDeleteI think it is a smart idea to take at least one year off before jumping into Graduate school because as discussed in Ten Tips for Those Considering MFA (9. Take some time off), if someone goes right into graduate school, they might still be in a “senior studio” mindset, with no time to grow or become more artistically independent.
Also as discussed in Ten Tips for Those Considering MFA (7. Be prepared to teach), I have to ask myself, do I want to be a teacher? The answer right now is NO. If I go to graduate school wouldn’t that be the obvious next step, to teach and get another job to support my “habit”.
"You pay all this money for an advanced degree so that you can get a teaching job that pays nothing”
My parents want me to apply for scholarships now and go right into graduate school preferably in Philadelphia. I don’t want to live here anymore. I was born and raised here for 21 years and I need to experience new places. They say I wouldn’t have to worry about having a job or paying rent and they would cover everything for me, but I’m not sure that’s the best idea. Personally, I want to get a job, experience paying bills and rent so I’m not completely clueless when I got out of graduate school. I haven’t had to do any of these things for myself yet.
As I am told, if I take a year or two off I may not get aid money because ill be working, These are the things my parents are telling me, but I have to find facts and do some research.
On one hand I’m flattered that they think I can succeed and get my MFA, the first of my siblings but I also and not getting the same or fair treatment they got either. I want to make my own decisions.
I have concerns about money and falling deeper into debt, if I can afford to go to grad school later down the road when my parents aren’t around to help me, how art majors will have to pay off loan for the rest of there lives, that I am and will be studying in a field that I have to pay to keep moving.
As we are in a recession, it may be wise to just stay in school to avoid the havoc of trying to get a job, one that pays 10 dollars an hour no less.
I am on the fence about what my plans will be after I graduate, do I want to just get it over with and have an MFA under my belt and please my parents or do I want to make my own decisions and have to pay for graduate school later on in life when I’m ready? I have to decide, and soon.